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Faster Charging for Nano/Nano+, in-the-field charging, higher current PD modes.

trontar

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Does the Autel Nano+ charger use PD (Power Delivery) or QuickCharge protocol?

It looks like the wall adapter is supporting USB PD 2.0 1.0.

The small print (through magnifying glass) says:
Output USB-C 5.0v=3.0A, 9.0v=3.0A, 12.0v=2.5A 30.0W
USB-A 5.0v=3.0A, 9.0V=2.0A, 12.0v=1.5A 18.0W

I've been using the big USB-A port. Is charging faster with the small USB-C @30W max??


USB PD 2.0 supports 5V-3A, 9V-3A, 12V-3A (36W), 15V-3A (45W), 20V-5A (100W)

The Autel product page says battery supports charging up to 30W, and it'd be unusual for such a small pack to support a 45W or 100W charging rate.

The battery has a capacity of 2250mAh @ 7.7V = 17.325 Wh. LiFePO4 doesn't charge at constant current but with a CC/CV two-stage process, so we can't estimate charging time based on max wattage the adapter can supply.
Autel says battery takes 90 min to charge, which means average charing power is only 17.3/1.5 = 11.55 Watts. That's well below the 30W spec, even accounting for the second stage, slower CV charge phase.


In the field one could run PD USB chargers off a 24 v battery feeding several EVO Nano chargers.,

To keep up with continous flying one would need to charge about 3 batteries per hour, which would require 5 chargers and a total of 6 batteries, one in the flying Nano+.

It would be nice if we could get a charge time per battery down to under 80 minutes, so only four chargers would be needed for continous flying.
This might be possible if the CC charge mode would take PD 2.0 12V @ 3.0A (36W) instead of just 30W.

I'll try other PD USB power supplies and report back if I can get under 80 minutes full charge time.

Please chime-in if you have done any measurements yourself.
Please let me know if you find anything incorrect in what i've written, thank you.
 
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trontar

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Autel Nano Charge-Time test results


68 min2022-10-04Autel 30W Adapter + Flight ChargerUSB-C PD Port
116 min2022-10-04Anker Powerport 60W + Flight ChargerUSB-A Port
91 min2022-10-06Anker Powerport 60W + Autel NanoUSB-C PD Port
58 min2022-10-07Autel 30W Adapter + Flight ChargerUSB-C PD Port
71 min2022-10-07Autel 30W Adapter + Flight ChargerUSB-A Port
72 min2022-10-07Autel 30W Adapter + Flight ChargerUSB-A Port
56 min2022-10-07Autel 30W Adapter + Flight ChargerUSB-C PD Port
300+ min2022-10-07Anker Powerport 60W + Autel NanoUSB-C PD Port

Only low-cycle count (<20) battieres were tested.
Batteries were first drained to shutdown using idle Nano+ sitting on floor.
 
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aryehb

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I use a usb c cable which shows the amount of charge, in watts, being passed.
Towards the end, the rate goes down. Apparently it slow charges when close to 100 percent.
I would recommend to disconnect and charge other batteries when the level goes down
 

herein2021

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Time-test results for full charge, new Nano+ battery:
68 min, 2022-10-04, Autel Adapter, USB-C Port
116 min, 2022-10-04, Anker Powerport 60W, USB-A Port

Does PD never work on USB-A form factor ports, even though the power-adapter supports PD?

The power supply is not the only consideration for charging speeds; LiPo's in particular are very susceptible to battery fires and the main cause of LiPo battery fires are due to improper charging. More than likely Autel has taken a conservative approach to the charging process to prevent battery fires and to lengthen the life of the battery, I would not do anything to attempt to change that. Unfortunately, that typically means you need to buy a lot more batteries than you would otherwise need, you also need to handle LiPo's with extreme care (never charge hot, don't leave on the charger, don't use them if they start swelling, dont' take off if the app shows any battery errors, etc, etc.).

I use a usb c cable which shows the amount of charge, in watts, being passed.
Towards the end, the rate goes down. Apparently it slow charges when close to 100 percent.
I would recommend to disconnect and charge other batteries when the level goes down

You should not disconnect the battery until it has reached 100%, the LiPo batteries are multi-cell and there is a balancing circuitry within the batteries or charger that ensures all cells are properly balanced before the charging process is complete. When the output wattage drops, it is probably performing the balancing cycle; skipping this repeatedly could lead to a complete failure in the air, incorrect levels reported to the app, and premature battery failure, and/or shorter battery life. Everything about the charging cycle is meant to reduce the chances of battery fires and extend the life of the batteries.
 
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trontar

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With a 68 minute charge time for one battery, three or four Autel power supplies plus flight chargers could keep you flying indefinitely throughout the day if your flight time + battery change exceeds 22.6 minutes.
.
If you use the Autel 30w USB adapters, the source power could be supplied by a large battery + 110/220v inverter, but this is pretty bulky and the additional boost circuit adds losses.
.
There are afordable USB PD chargers for camping/truck/rv that take 24V DC-in. If any of them can match the Autel adapters' 30-Watt 12v PD profile (apparently a PD 1.0 mode), they might also fully charge a Nano+ battery in around 68 minutes. I haven't found one that explicitly advertises this 12v 3-ampere mode though.
.
If we take 17.3 Wh as capacity for a Nano+ battery and give ourselves 20 minutes conservative flight time for each, we get an energy consumption of 52 Wh per hour of flight time.
.
That means an 8 hour workday would require 416 Wh portable power source, which could be supplied by just one 20Ah 24v LiFEPo4 battery. They can be bought for camping/RV/boat or solar applications without breaking the bank.
.
I'll continue appending to my charge-time measurements in the second post to this thread as I make them.
 
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herein2021

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With a 68 minute charge time for one battery, three or four Autel power supplies plus flight chargers could keep you flying indefinitely throughout the day if your flight time + battery change exceeds 22.6 minutes.
.
If you use the Autel 30w USB adapters, the source power could be supplied by a large battery + 110/220v inverter, but this is pretty bulky and the additional boost circuit adds losses.
.
There are afordable USB PD chargers for camping/truck/rv that take 24V DC-in. If any of them can match the Autel adapters' 30-Watt 12v PD profile (apparently a PD 1.0 mode), they might also fully charge a Nano+ battery in around 68 minutes. I haven't found one that explicitly advertises this 12v 3-ampere mode though.
.
If we take 17.3 Wh as capacity for a Nano+ battery and give ourselves 20 minutes conservative flight time for each, we get an energy consumption of 52 Wh per hour of flight time.
.
That means an 8 hour workday would require 416 Wh portable power source, which could be supplied by just one 20Ah 24v LiFEPo4 battery. They can be bought for camping/RV/boat or solar applications without breaking the bank.
.
I'll continue appending to my charge-time measurements in the second post to this thread as I make them.

The funny thing is I keep reading about battery breakthroughs. Some new technology right around the corner that will revolutionize batteries. Some new metal, design, material, etc....and yet 10yrs later here we still are fiddling with finicky LiPos.
 

trontar

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The power supply is not the only consideration for charging speeds; LiPo's in particular are very susceptible to battery fires and the main cause of LiPo battery fires are due to improper charging. More than likely Autel has taken a conservative approach to the charging process to prevent battery fires and to lengthen the life of the battery, I would not do anything to attempt to change that.
I don't disagree but I'd like to clarify:
The Autel 'Flight Charger' (the bar with the three connections) manages the charge current/voltage and limits it to a safe cc/cv curve -- irrespective of the USB power supply you use to feed it.
It feels like an empty box but there is a lot of smarts in there.
If the name "MDA" is anything to go by, it might be designed by these guys: Charger,Charging cabinet-Shenzhen Modiary Co., Ltd.

What I've found is that the fastest charge (so far) has been with the Autel wall power supply, on the USB-C port. The USB-A on it charges slower.
 
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ccadden

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I don't disagree but I'd like to clarify:
The Autel 'Flight Charger' (the bar with the three connections) manages the charge current/voltage and limits it to a safe cc/cv curve -- irrespective of the USB power supply you use to feed it.
It feels like an empty box but there is a lot of smarts in there.
If the name "MDA" is anything to go by, it might be designed by these guys: Charger,Charging cabinet-Shenzhen Modiary Co., Ltd.

What I've found is that the fastest charge (so far) has been with the Autel wall power supply, on the USB-C port. The USB-A on it charges slower.
If charging one battery, is it quicker or slower just keeping it in the Nano?
 

trontar

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If charging one battery, is it quicker or slower just keeping it in the Nano?
I will need to do more tests. Today i got a full charge in 91 minutes using the Nano+ internal charging.
I'd be happy to add results from other forum members if they follow the protocol (fully drain battery first in an idle nano+).
It would help if we got a beep on full charge. As it is I have to keep a close eye on things, charging right on my desk, below my monitor.
 
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