Drone Industry Rumors about Consumer Market and Government Ban

[pedals2paddles]

worried about my drone being grounded in the US Federal Govt

And as you've been told multiple times... there is not, never has been, and likely never will be any legislation in the USA that prohibits the purchase or use of Chinese manufactured drones from the general public. You need to stop worrying about it, or at least stop making silly posts about it.

And again, the various pieces of proposed legislation, which has come in the past and never gets any traction, would only prohibit the federal government from spending tax dollars on certain equipment. This has absolutely nothing to do with you as the general public.

 

[Achernar]

And as you've been told multiple times... there is not, never has been, and likely never will be any legislation in the USA that prohibits the purchase or use of Chinese manufactured drones from the general public. You need to stop worrying about it, or at least stop making silly posts about it.

And again, the various pieces of proposed legislation, which has come in the past and never gets any traction, would only prohibit the federal government from spending tax dollars on certain equipment. This has absolutely nothing to do with you as the general public.

Let's say hypothetically the legislation passed so all CCP drones are banned from federal and state agencies. I wonder how much of a financial hit DJI and Autel take.

 

[pedals2paddles]

Let's say hypothetically the legislation passed so all CCP drones are banned from federal and state agencies. I wonder how much of a financial hit DJI and Autel take.

Well first, it is not a banning state agencies from using them. For the one millionth time, it would be a ban on spending federal tax dollars on them. This would directly impact federal agencies since they obviously spend federal tax dollars. It's impact beyond federal agencies, is that federal grant money given to state and local agencies could not be used on them. But states and cities would be free to spend their own money on them.

The military already can't does not use DJI. Most federal agencies already don't use DJI. So no big financial impact to DJI. Some federal agencies use Autel. State and city agencies are a far bigger market than federal. And they would not be affected at all as long as they aren't using federal grant money.

So the short answer is there would a be a financial impact, but probably not as big as it sounds.

 

[Achernar]

Well first, it is not a banning state agencies from using them. For the one millionth time, it would be a ban on spending federal tax dollars on them. This would directly impact federal agencies since they obviously spend federal tax dollars. It's impact beyond federal agencies, is that federal grant money given to state and local agencies could not be used on them. But states and cities would be free to spend their own money on them.

The military already can't does not use DJI. Most federal agencies already don't use DJI. So no big financial impact to DJI. Some federal agencies use Autel. State and city agencies are a far bigger market than federal. And they would not be affected at all as long as they aren't using federal grant money.

So the short answer is there would a be a financial impact, but probably not as big as it sounds.

Agreed…

 

[3Fees]

Interesting

Cheers
3Fees

 

[mike9591]

Good for you - but in my state it costs to file a small claims suit. Did not see it worth my time and effort over $800 and they know that too, so they string you along till your tire of their BS. I hit all the right buttons with AG, BBB, etc, - so they did jump thru some hoops to "appease" me.

If you Google Search CEO Warnas Autel CEO - when he left he blatantly stated his reason for leaving the company - due to a poor management structure more resembling a federal government agency where many work super slow at their jobs or not at all. Then throw up the wall you can't touch me. Then the Chinese Owner / CEO showed his @$$ with a reply that was beyond insane.

I don't get it, but did work for some Silicon Valley Tech Companies during the dot.com debacle and their insanity was off the charts in the top levels. Grandiose plans and some very stupid moves sent them to the basement and bought out by other better run tech companies. They simply thought they were the best and untouchable, but quickly learned smaller companies were far hungrier to beat them out and they did. Went from like a 75% market share and 2 years or so - down to about 25% market share. I got out before it all fell apart - by my stock options / etc were worthless.

Warnas tried to promise so much and yes he became a household name in the forums and FB groups but the reality was he did NOT have the autonomy to suggest the things he did. He had many great ideas for the company like drone giveaways, consumer participation events etc but did not have the DJI budget in reserves. He also disagreed with the progress into an already saturated enterprise market. Odd coming from his background with DJI. Anyway he wanted things to go his way and was shown the door basically by the powers that be in China. My guess is he tried to impress which he did, but you cannot do these things without first having discussed with the owners of the company. Not his first stint and won't be his last. He has quite the resume of here and gone. At the time I think there were less than 22 people at Autel WA under Warnas.... Service, Support mainly.... so yeah probably as big as an exec you find at a local HVAC company.

Based on individuals our company talked to during that time a few years ago, he was not wanting to be conditioned more or less. They wanted a yes man which most overseas entities like to have in a CFO or CEO stateside. Just how biz runs. Don't like it? Leave! And he has left many sUAS companies several times. SO yeah... people go on and on about that without really knowing anything more than what the guy promised at the Autel FB groups. Probably a good reason why most companies frown upon executives having direct contact with consumers. The guy promised a great deal, Ken promised some turn arounds as well, but in the end they answer to other company leaders that have their own ideas. Currently the push is on the enterprise, SAR, LEO use birds, but there is nothing official other than not really moving forward with the Nano... which basically means they are not ordering another batch of 5000 or more drones that can't compete at a fair price range. DJI put crap cameras on most of those drones but that wasn't an issue for most, nor is the geofencing. Bottom line is they are the NAME In drones and every store, retailer will promote those sells. My guess is DJI offers a ton of retailer incentives, volume buying that Autel, Skydio, Parrot, etc simple cannot afford to do. DJI is a monopoly

Autel Robotics is a small small division of Autel that makes a lot of diagnostic gear for auto centers. Warnas just bit off more then he could chew. Ken Booth was indeed frustrated and Autel coming out of Covid shutdowns didn't help given WA state had their own C19 related issues. Many of the workers had to find new jobs. Autel and other companies in the service business were then faced with finding new associates and rebuild.

Autel changed gears some after DJI just bombarded the sub 250 drone market with 5 drones at various price points. There was no way to compete. Autel decided not to order another 5 or 10K drones like the NANO. It made no sense to do so. Lite and Lite + E2 drones are still big sellers and do well. Older E2's V1 are likely to be EOL in March. V2 probably a year later, and V3 at some point in '25. That's pretty normal for most businesses like these in consumer electronics, cameras, and so on. DJI can put a firmware for something and say it enhanced XyZ and it may have no real change just like other camera and computer companies do.. phone companies, guitar amp modelers... etc. They update for the sake of updating, but sometimes those minimal updates can ruin performance. Has happened with every device I mentioned.

 

[jeff]

I'm a recent new owner of an Autel Evo Lite + drone and I'm very happy with my purchase. My concerns, however, don't lie with the hardware but instead with business and political decisions on the horizon. The two big ones are.
- Comments that Autel Robotics is leaving the consumer drone market.
- US government may ban ALL use of Autel drones nationwide (not just government agencies) with Bill H.R. 6572. https://www.congress.gov/117/bills/hr6572/BILLS-117hr6572ih.pdf

Just trying to figure out how much truth is behind these two topics. I guess Autel leaving the consumer drone market would be disappointing, but not a showstopper for using the drone as long as parts, batteries, and the app is still working. A nationwide ban grounding all Autel Robotics drones would really suck though...

What is everyone's thoughts on this and does anyone have accurate inside information?

Also, comments about Autel's customer service and dropping the X-Drone are out of scope for this discussion. Those two topics are very well covered in other posts on AutelPilots.

Thank you.

As a drone pilot and program supervisor in Public safety I do not support the ban. Having to swap to american made drone companies would destroy our abilities and mission operations. I would love to buy USA made drones. BUT, they are obsolete, expensive and overall worthless. They lobby the government over false claims to outlaw the competition. This way they rape taxpayers and sell their outdated designs. I can collect more data thru everyones foreign made phones that people carry all over government property. But we see no ban on these. And It hasnt been proven that the drone pushes out any info to anywhere unknown. Skydio now has a new one for what? 20000.00 dollars. Parrot, outdated thermal and joke for zoom and 14000.00. The list goes on. Most do not have the newest flir bosun resolution. American drone companies are a joke. And dont you love the design, We have all these features and will turn them on for 1000 dollars a drone each year after you pay to much for the drone. And they are willing to obstruct law enforcement efforts, fire safety and search and rescue to line their pockets at taxpayer and victim expense. Make a good reasonable drone or go home that is what our response should be to so called drone companies Dont buy there crap regardless.

 

[jaja6009]

As a drone pilot and program supervisor in Public safety I do not support the ban. Having to swap to american made drone companies would destroy our abilities and mission operations. I would love to buy USA made drones. BUT, they are obsolete, expensive and overall worthless. They lobby the government over false claims to outlaw the competition. This way they rape taxpayers and sell their outdated designs. I can collect more data thru everyones foreign made phones that people carry all over government property. But we see no ban on these. And It hasnt been proven that the drone pushes out any info to anywhere unknown. Skydio now has a new one for what? 20000.00 dollars. Parrot, outdated thermal and joke for zoom and 14000.00. The list goes on. Most do not have the newest flir bosun resolution. American drone companies are a joke. And dont you love the design, We have all these features and will turn them on for 1000 dollars a drone each year after you pay to much for the drone. And they are willing to obstruct law enforcement efforts, fire safety and search and rescue to line their pockets at taxpayer and victim expense. Make a good reasonable drone or go home that is what our response should be to so called drone companies Dont buy there crap regardless.

Hello Jeff,
I am in a similar position. I am the sUAS coordinator for our city and have the same exact issues, questions and concerns. Every time there is a new proposed law about banning Chinese drones, the questions come flooding in. The State Police actually are a good source of information on the current "mood" in Washington. I agree with you on the fact that American drones are at this time are either too expensive, lack similar capabilities or both when compared to DJI and Autel. But, if you do look around it is getting better. Everyone focuses on Blue sUAS, but there are many other companies out there that just are not well known. I think they hurt themselves with the Contact us for pricing nonsense. I wish their pricing was posted and available as most think that if a price is not listed, then it's too expensive.

Some interesting solutions, some Blue sUAS, some US companies but outsourced for manufacturing.

Skydio X10 - Payloads look like they compete nicely with the M30T, but availability will be a problem. Also it has some great OEM attachments. Attachments (Spotlight, Speaker, RTK module, parachute!!!) I actually think this is a good fit for our rapid response sUAS vehicle. We have an M300RTK, but it is better suited for DFR with its large size and long time to flight due to assembly.
FLIR SIRAS - Can lightly compete against a Mavic 3 Thermal, although it costs more, has an inferior zoom and lacks integration into a Situational Awareness Ecosystem like Flight Hub 2 (The kicker is that the SIRAS is a rebranded Taiwanese Coretronics Hummer that actually has both an inspection software and Flight Hub 2 like ops application which both do not make it to the USA/FLIR version SIRAS) It features a 640 Radiometric FLIR Boson (Not the new +). FLIR claims more payloads are coming and I would think a zoom payload will be first.
Paladin Drones - Currently allows Elizabeth NJ PD to operate BVLOS in Class B air space around Newark Airport through a COA. LTE link to drone
Teal 2 - They are using the FLIR Boson 640 sensor
Easy Aerial has a large selection of drones, although there is no pricing


It will be interesting watching this play out. Hopefully the best USA drones will gain a market share which might drop pricing and increase capabilities, but this is just speculating.
I like to think, if you make it we will buy it. If it meets our needs, and has a reasonable price though.

 

[jeff]

Hello Jeff,
I am in a similar position. I am the sUAS coordinator for our city and have the same exact issues, questions and concerns. Every time there is a new proposed law about banning Chinese drones, the questions come flooding in. The State Police actually are a good source of information on the current "mood" in Washington. I agree with you on the fact that American drones are at this time are either too expensive, lack similar capabilities or both when compared to DJI and Autel. But, if you do look around it is getting better. Everyone focuses on Blue sUAS, but there are many other companies out there that just are not well known. I think they hurt themselves with the Contact us for pricing nonsense. I wish their pricing was posted and available as most think that if a price is not listed, then it's too expensive.

Some interesting solutions, some Blue sUAS, some US companies but outsourced for manufacturing.

Skydio X10 - Payloads look like they compete n icely with the M30T, but availability will be a problem. Also it has some great OEM attachments. Attachments (Spotlight, Speaker, RTK module, parachute!!!) I actually think this is a good fit for our rapid response sUAS vehicle. We have an M300RTK, but it is better suited for DFR with its large size and long time to flight due to assembly.
FLIR SIRAS - Can lightly compete against a Mavic 3 Thermal, although it costs more, has an inferior zoom and lacks integration into a Situational Awareness Ecosystem like Flight Hub 2 (The kicker is that the SIRAS is a rebranded Taiwanese Coretronics Hummer that actually has both an inspection software and Flight Hub 2 like ops application which both do not make it to the USA/FLIR version SIRAS) It features a 640 Radiometric FLIR Boson (Not the new +). FLIR claims more payloads are coming and I would think a zoom payload will be first.
Paladin Drones - Currently allows Elizabeth NJ PD to operate BVLOS in Class B air space around Newark Airport through a COA. LTE link to drone
Teal 2 - They are using the FLIR Boson 640 sensor
Easy Aerial has a large selection of drones, although there is no pricing


It will be interesting watching this play out. Hopefully the best USA drones will gain a market share which might drop pricing and increase capabilities, but this is just speculating.
I like to think, if you make it we will buy it. If it meets our needs, and has a reasonable price though.

I agree entirely. I find it disappointing that they seem unconcerned about what is needed and more concerned "if I qualify for the grant they will buy what ever I give them."
Siras, they import a drone with other capabilities and wipe it down to a basic drone. I emailed the company rep with Coretronics in Europe. They will not sell their model here because of the deal with teledyne.
Skydio is way to much money and finding a demo is non-existent. The little experience I had with a skydio product early on was no range.
It is sad only the chinese can deliver a product we really need.

 

[jaja6009]

I agree with you. Right now with Flight Hub 2, we have an economic and game changing ability to have advanced ops at a low cost. We will be attempting to do a DFR COA very soon and we are lucky that our air space is uncomplicated.

I see you did some research on the SIRAS. I was led to Coretronics from the DOC on the SIRAS for Remote ID and was shocked when I saw they took an interesting platform and made it uninteresting. Also that you cannot charge the controller while using it and lacking a swappable battery was really a turnoff on the SIRAS for our organization. The SIRAS is more a competitor for the Mavic 2 Enterprise Advanced and the Evo 2 640/Dual in Public Safety applications.

I don't have time to link it, but the Dobo guy on Youtube brought it up. The new proposed law (whether it has or will have traction is speculation) is even scarier than the previous attempts. It is basically saying that in the future if you apply for a Federal grant (Not just to buy a drone, but any federal grant such as for AFG, SAFER) and you own and operate a covered sUAS you would need a waiver process to receive the grant. We use SAFER and/or AFG almost annually so this is a very scary point for us. If we had to choose a DJI drone or the hiring of firefighters or the purchase of capitol expense type equipment to include up to apparatus the choice is a grounded DJI drone.

If you don't mind me asking, what Skydio did you test? I am hoping that the X10 fixes alot of past issues such as limited range, extra money to unlock the useful capabilities and other problems. We also use our drones to support traditional tasks and currently are mapping our beaches to "survey grade" and doing sand loss volume calculations. We need an RTK drone to make this feasible and the X10 is the first solution Skydio has that may be able to integrate RTK/PPK into mapping, but it still remains to be seen if their optional RTK module is for just positioning or if it tags the images. Right now the Evo 2 RTK/Enterprise and Mavic 3E are some of the few options to easily RTK/PPK map under $5K with a reasonably large CMOS sensor and easy, proven workflows. The ability to not have to use GCPs on the beach where they are picked up or moved by the curious or taken by other people who think they are trash is the only reason we can map our beaches with the available manpower.

 

[jeff]

I agree with you. Right now with Flight Hub 2, we have an economic and game changing ability to have advanced ops at a low cost. We will be attempting to do a DFR COA very soon and we are lucky that our air space is uncomplicated.

I see you did some research on the SIRAS. I was led to Coretronics from the DOC on the SIRAS for Remote ID and was shocked when I saw they took an interesting platform and made it uninteresting. Also that you cannot charge the controller while using it and lacking a swappable battery was really a turnoff on the SIRAS for our organization. The SIRAS is more a competitor for the Mavic 2 Enterprise Advanced and the Evo 2 640/Dual in Public Safety applications.

I don't have time to link it, but the Dobo guy on Youtube brought it up. The new proposed law (whether it has or will have traction is speculation) is even scarier than the previous attempts. It is basically saying that in the future if you apply for a Federal grant (Not just to buy a drone, but any federal grant such as for AFG, SAFER) and you own and operate a covered sUAS you would need a waiver process to receive the grant. We use SAFER and/or AFG almost annually so this is a very scary point for us. If we had to choose a DJI drone or the hiring of firefighters or the purchase of capitol expense type equipment to include up to apparatus the choice is a grounded DJI drone.

If you don't mind me asking, what Skydio did you test? I am hoping that the X10 fixes alot of past issues such as limited range, extra money to unlock the useful capabilities and other problems. We also use our drones to support traditional tasks and currently are mapping our beaches to "survey grade" and doing sand loss volume calculations. We need an RTK drone to make this feasible and the X10 is the first solution Skydio has that may be able to integrate RTK/PPK into mapping, but it still remains to be seen if their optional RTK module is for just positioning or if it tags the images. Right now the Evo 2 RTK/Enterprise and Mavic 3E are some of the few options to easily RTK/PPK map under $5K with a reasonably large CMOS sensor and easy, proven workflows. The ability to not have to use GCPs on the beach where they are picked up or moved by the curious or taken by other people who think they are trash is the only reason we can map our beaches with the available manpower.

I was with an individual that we started our team together 2 years ago. We were working with SAR K9 teams training. We were flying the drones to familiarize the k9s with the noise so they would learn to ignore them. We were also flying above them and acting as a overwatch for any thing that would be ahead that would assist them in their ops. He pulls out one of the skydio 2 and attached it to follow the k9 unit. We lost contact multiple times at close ranges in wooded areas. It did return though . Since then never been around the newer models. We avoided them as a purchase because of the annual cost to have the Skydio x2 fully operational. And the X10 is way to expensive for a single unit for us. If you get to try one out let me know what you think of the x10. It looks like a good product. I would like to see its actual range in different environments.