Found a 'major' issue with the camera firmware.

RJ_Make · Aug 30, 2016

Well, major issue for me, and would imagine to other photographers who only shoot in RAW.

The firmware is not writing the EXIF data for the .dng RAW format, and technical support has no idea why or if it will ever record that information.

I'm waiting on their final response; if turns out that the platform will never write the EXIF data for the .dng RAW format, I guess I'll be selling it..

Even my P3S writes this information with no problems, I just don't understand why it seems to be a problem for Autel's flagship drone to do so.

cokeaddict · Aug 31, 2016

Not having a dig at you RJ but explain why you have to have the EXIF data. Whats it used for in your situation

RJ_Make · Aug 31, 2016

I shoot in RAW because I want full control over the photo; .jpg are just too limited. I use the EXIF data to evaluate the photo results with the settings I choose. I use it to compare the results between photo's with the camera settings, I don't even get the GPS cords when using RAW with the XSP.

I know using this data may be considered a 'crutch' but I just don't know of any other way to evaluate my settings/photo's with out knowing what they were when the picture was taken. Do you?? Every camera I own that shoots RAW, captures the EXIF data in full, so far this is the first time I've run into this problem.

Take a look at this page, and pay particular attention to the "Making sense of it" section.

AirmetTango · Aug 31, 2016

I've always shot in jpg + dng mode whenever it's an option since I started using digital cameras, so the lack of exif data with the dng files on the XSP hasn't been a big issue for me. I just cross reference the exif data from the jpg on the shots where I'm interested. It's maybe a mild inconvenience to have the extra step to cross reference in my workflow, but for me, it's nowhere near a deal breaker situation by itself. I'd be surprised if it doesn't get addressed in future firmware updates if enough people complain about it. In the meantime, disk storage space for both versions is cheap.

RJ_Make · Sep 1, 2016

AirmetTango said:
I've always shot in jpg + dng mode whenever it's an option since I started using digital cameras, so the lack of exif data with the dng files on the XSP hasn't been a big issue for me. I just cross reference the exif data from the jpg on the shots where I'm interested. It's maybe a mild inconvenience to have the extra step to cross reference in my workflow, but for me, it's nowhere near a deal breaker situation by itself. I'd be surprised if it doesn't get addressed in future firmware updates if enough people complain about it. In the meantime, disk storage space for both versions is cheap.

If you are post processing why bother having your camera capture .jpg's? My entire workflow is centered around the RAW format, so I don't even mess with .jpg. For a "4K" capable camera, that has the capability to write RAW, this simply should not be an issue, but from my conversations with tech support it sure seems to be, and to be 'warned' that it may not get fixed is just plain concerning to me...

It's actually just one of a few issues I'm having with my XSP.

AirmetTango · Sep 1, 2016

I was just offering a potentially easy work around for the issue that you were concerned about - I made the wrong assumption that this was the only reason why you were considering returning the X-Star, and the wrong assumption that you wanted a work around solution. If you have other major issues with the unit as well, yes, by all means you should return it. I'm surprised that you got a "warning" that they "may not fix it" - in my personal experience with Autel CS, they never implied that they weren't interested in or flat out not planning on fixing any issue that I've raised. On the contrary, I've found them to consistently be very proactive, in many cases calling back several times on their own to provide additional information or clarify my problem for their techs. All that said, they definitely may not end up providing a fix for all your issues before you are outside of your return window with whatever vendor you purchased from, so I wouldn't wait too long for a final response if this and other issues you've experienced are even potential deal breakers. I think it took a few weeks for them to issue the new firmware that fixed the "45 degree vertical panning hitch" that used to be evident when panning the camera slowly, just for reference - most places have a 30 day return window, I think?

As for why I bother capturing jpg images - there are several reasons, but maybe the most important for me is that it provides quick and easy proof images that can be emailed to or viewed by the client virtually on the spot. I realize many photographers don't shoot in both formats simultaneously, but many do. Just different strokes for different folks - just like you want to have the exif info on every image and I don't.

RJ_Make · Sep 1, 2016

Thanks AirmentTango, I do appreciate your input, (even though I certainly didn't convey that

) as you bring up some good suggestions. It is indeed a "different strokes for different folks" thing. I'm use to doing things in a certain way with a certain work flow,.... it's just hard doing it in a different way, especially over something that really shouldn't be an issue.

I do have a question for you, so when you are post processing the RAW for your final 'print' (not sure what you're doing with your photos), how do you handle getting the EXIF data into the outputted .jpg photo?

To be clear, Autel's CS has been great. The tech. that I've been working with on my problems has been great, and always responds quickly. I have no complaints whatsoever on that end. Let me also clarify the "warning" statement; He said, several times, that he thinks the missing EXIF data may be due to a limitation of the .dng format (which I know can't be true) and may not be able to be corrected, but he would "notify the overseas partners" or something like that. I interpreted that as a "warning" that it may not get fixed. I guess time will tell because...

... It appears that I'm out of the return period, I could probably push it with Amazon with a copy of all the Autel's correspondence, but I wont. I really hope that my problems can be resolved, as I want to like the XSP, but as it stands now, with the exception of the shell thickness and transmition distance, my P3S is a far superior aircraft at this point.

AirmetTango · Sep 2, 2016

No worries, RJ - I certainly understand your point. I'm on the easy side of this issue - it isn't my workflow that's getting pinched

If it were me, I'd probably be just as annoyed as you are! I understand what you're saying now on the CS response you got. U.S. tech support can only pass along the complaint "overseas", as I'm sure a re-write of the firmware to fix the EXIF issue needs to get done by Autel in China. As disconcerting as that may seem, that process seems to be working out positively so far with other issues. Like I said, Autel has fixed other issues that users have complained about - the vertical panning glitch and yaw control for example - and I know they are actively working very hard on the video feed lag issue that users of older iOS devices are experiencing with the new Starlink/firmware combination (I'm in that boat, and Autel CS has included me in a beta test of new Starlink software). It might not be as fast of a process as we all might want, but they've earned my benefit of the doubt in terms of being responsive to customer issues. The problem I foresee would be if Autel decides that the EXIF data issue is a low priority compared to others, which would delay a fix.

I'm sorry to hear you're out of the return period - I truly hope some of your issues can get resolved and you can get some enjoyment out of the XSP. I really do like mine a lot - that's not to say I haven't had my share of issues. I actually sent one back to Amazon for a pair of issues I had - it turns out one issue was my own device, the other issue appears to have been real; but all that is a story for another day.

About handling the EXIF data for post-processing, I use this free program to edit my EXIF data as necessary: Free Exif Editor - Edit, Create, and View Metadata (EXIF, EXIF GPS, IPTC, and XMP) with Exif Pilot (I hope it's not some kind of violation of the TOS to post a link to a third party program??)

In general, I use it to add copyright info and any other necessary notes to my images. Specifically for this EXIF issue, since I'm shooting jpg + dng on the XSP, I can use the program to export the EXIF data from the jpg to an excel spreadsheet, then immediately import it back into the respective dng file. Takes roughly 5 seconds, and that way it's already there in the dng file before I even start post-process.

RJ_Make · Sep 2, 2016

Thanks AirmetTango.

RJ_Make · Sep 9, 2016

Well, it looks like this issue isn't going to be fixed.

Hello Robert

I was about to email you.

I followed up with your request to have EXIF data attached to the DNG files. Unfortunately this feature is unavailable on our aircraft. This is unlikely to change, apparently it is not a limitation we can resolve through a firmware release. I have made a note about this specific request, so this feature may be available on future products from Autel. I would keep an eye out on our social media pages and official website for updates.

Quagmire LXIX · Sep 9, 2016

AirmetTango said:
About handling the EXIF data for post-processing, I use this free program to edit my EXIF data as necessary: Free Exif Editor - Edit, Create, and View Metadata (EXIF, EXIF GPS, IPTC, and XMP) with Exif Pilot (I hope it's not some kind of violation of the TOS to post a link to a third party program??)

In general, I use it to add copyright info and any other necessary notes to my images. Specifically for this EXIF issue, since I'm shooting jpg + dng on the XSP, I can use the program to export the EXIF data from the jpg to an excel spreadsheet, then immediately import it back into the respective dng file. Takes roughly 5 seconds, and that way it's already there in the dng file before I even start post-process.

Outstanding Airmet! I shoot jpg+dng and this works great. Import/Export works well using either option and quick with flow, thanks a bunch man

Coop · Sep 15, 2016

Wow, so it isn't even possible to fix! VERY disappointing

Doesn't matter if you need it or not, or there is a workaround, it is not right.

AirmetTango · Sep 16, 2016

Quagmire LXIX said:
Outstanding Airmet! I shoot jpg+dng and this works great. Import/Export works well using either option and quick with flow, thanks a bunch man

Glad to hear it helped you out!! My pleasure!

David Myers · Jan 21, 2017

RJ_Make said:
Well, it looks like this issue isn't going to be fixed.

RJ,

The answer to your request is not what I wanted to hear. I read this string back in November when I first started flying the X-Star. When I first read the string I did not consider the lack of the EXIF data a big deal, but recently I ran into an issue related to the lack of the data. I've been shooting nonflying cameras for a long time and enjoy shoot sunsets and mostly do so by shooting multiple exposures and combining them in HDR software.I found out that HDR software does not work without EXIF data, I tried three different software options I have. I don't get it, if the firmware writes the data to a JPEG, why not to the RAW file. I hope their answer is not related to their focus on new product only.

It sounds like the workaround suggested in this string may be a fix which is one more step I will have to do.

Was going to fly today but too windy and had to find something else to do related to the flying camera. Wish it were more positive. I did take one of the middle exposures from the last flight and created this image.

Dave

RJ_Make · Jan 21, 2017

David Myers said:
RJ,

The answer to your request is not what I wanted to hear. I read this string back in November when I first started flying the X-Star. When I first read the string I did not consider the lack of the EXIF data a big deal, but recently I ran into an issue related to the lack of the data. I've been shooting nonflying cameras for a long time and enjoy shoot sunsets and mostly do so by shooting multiple exposures and combining them in HDR software.I found out that HDR software does not work without EXIF data, I tried three different software options I have. I don't get it, if the firmware writes the data to a JPEG, why not to the RAW file. I hope their answer is not related to their focus on new product only.

It sounds like the workaround suggested in this string may be a fix which is one more step I will have to do.

Was going to fly today but too windy and had to find something else to do related to the flying camera. Wish it were more positive. I did take one of the middle exposures from the last flight and created this image.

Dave

View attachment 234

I really think they just don't want to put whatever resources (money) into the camera to fix the issue. I got the impression they don't have the ability to write new firmware to the camera itself. I think much, if not all of this aircraft firmware is handled by third parties.

Francois · Jan 21, 2017

I imagine that for some the photography function is more important than for me but the use that I of my XSP is to 99% in video, that is my personnal use.
I happened to take a few shots while flying but I consider that the photo quality is far from as good as the quality in video.
Even future 1-inch cameras are not yet level with a reflex camera. I do not doubt that one day the quality will be excellent but this is not the case at the moment.
As part of a purely WEB use of photos of the XSP this can go but next to my drone I have a Nikon D800E camera and several lenses and I do a lot of photos and some exhibitions but I do not imagine making enlargements Print A2 or even A3 photos taken by my XSP.
I sometimes include fixed shots made with my SLR camera in my videos like here, but I do not imagine for the moment inserting pictures made by my XSP that I consider a fantastic flying camera.
Moreover it would be interesting to launch a small survey to know that it is the percentage of use video and photo among the owners of XSP.
Excuse my English, I'm French! (Google is my translator friend)

Owenpga · Jan 22, 2017

David Myers said:
RJ,

The answer to your request is not what I wanted to hear. I read this string back in November when I first started flying the X-Star. When I first read the string I did not consider the lack of the EXIF data a big deal, but recently I ran into an issue related to the lack of the data. I've been shooting nonflying cameras for a long time and enjoy shoot sunsets and mostly do so by shooting multiple exposures and combining them in HDR software.I found out that HDR software does not work without EXIF data, I tried three different software options I have. I don't get it, if the firmware writes the data to a JPEG, why not to the RAW file. I hope their answer is not related to their focus on new product only.

It sounds like the workaround suggested in this string may be a fix which is one more step I will have to do.

Was going to fly today but too windy and had to find something else to do related to the flying camera. Wish it were more positive. I did take one of the middle exposures from the last flight and created this image.

Dave

View attachment 234

Dave- i shot numerous shots in bracket mode and they blend fine using the hdr function via PSCC in lightroom. i also have a plugin that i use which also blend fine. it's
probably looking for the exposure settings and because It can't find any, it won't bracket, but you you might be able to override that. What program are you trying to blend with?

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