Welcome, Autel Pilots!
Join our free Autel drone community today!
Join Us

Why I NEVER Shoot Video at 24FPS

I agree with you - I never use ND filters and use CPL filters but I might ditch them as well - I never understood why you-tubers constantly push 24fps - looks like crap when you pan. I prefer the 4k 60fps my Evo 2 Pro provides but when using my Mini 2 it's always 4k 30fps.

I also dont understand when folks use an Evo 2 pro or a Phantom and only post at 1080.....Why not show your subscribers the best quality you can.

Thanks again for posting this.

I will admit I almost never post at 4K even though all of the source material for a project is 4K or 6K. The reason I downscale is because I typically mix the drone footage with footage from other cameras and with my cinema or handheld cameras I frequently like to recompose the shot or add motion where there was none; by shooting 4K then cropping to 1080P you get up to 2x in every direction to work with the footage. You can also add lossless image stabilization, horizon straightening, etc if you downsample the original 4K footage.

The final thing I do since YouTube uses a different/better codec for 2K and above footage is I then upscale to 2K for a YouTube delivery. If I happened to not need to recompose any of the footage for the whole project I will occasionally deliver at 4K or if a client's project mandates 4K source footage then I will deliver at the original resolution but the reality is, few people will ever notice the difference in 4K vs 1080P since 75%+ of online content is now viewed via tiny cell phone screens at 360p.

If 6K or 8K ever become economical options then I will start to regularly deliver at 4K. If the EVO II had 10bit 6K I would be more inclined to deliver at 4K but since 6K is only 8bit I usually only shoot 4K.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Theborg
Love these series. I am also always looking for the ways to simplify as well as diversify my workflow. Doing things (which also includes aesthetics and storytelling) in a certain way just because it's "professional" without ever questioning is not always a rational choice but I guess feels safe to many.

Another reason to not shoot 24fps is because if the content is intended to be consumed online then it will likely have to conform to the 60Hz screens most phones and laptops have. Sure, there are also 50Hz ones and gaming monitors that do 120Hz and 144Hz, while some screens have 48Hz mode that they switch to dynamically if the 24fps media is played fullscreen. The framerate conversion pipeline used by video players is good but still why not just avoid it if the content is not for cinema?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Saladshooter
Love these series. I am also always looking for the ways to simplify as well as diversify my workflow. Doing things (which also includes aesthetics and storytelling) in a certain way just because it's "professional" without ever questioning is not always a rational choice but I guess feels safe to many.

Another reason to not shoot 24fps is because if the content is intended to be consumed online then it will likely have to conform to the 60Hz screens most phones and laptops have. Sure, there are also 50Hz ones and gaming monitors that do 120Hz and 144Hz, while some screens have 48Hz mode that they switch to dynamically if the 24fps media is played fullscreen. The framerate conversion pipeline used by video players is good but still why not just avoid it if the content is not for cinema?
Reason I shoot in 24fps (only sometime):
Propellers shadow = flicker all image.
In 30 FPS at SS somewhere between 1/500-1/650 all image start to flicker if there is sun above drone.
I made some tests with E2P and conclusion was at 4K Normal footage, 1PM hour, sun partly covered by clouds with a sharp angle from above the drone:
- 30 FPS SS 1/650, Manual ISO100, Manual WB = image start to flicker as the propeller shadow is syncing with the SS and FPS and appears in image, causing a flicker on lower, middle and upper parts (not only upper).
- 24 FPS, all the same = image not flickering anymore, as is "blending" a little more, enough to pass the shadow from props...
I must admin I did not have the ND filters in that day with me, as was a small commercial and I was a little lazy....but was enough to see why sometime we have a lot of flicker in all image, not only in upper part...
At first I thought is from Defog or Anti-Flicker settings, as even with the sun covered by clouds, that flicker appeared. Seems that the New props (low noise) are longer and cause this thing.
Hope this helps, some thought is a malfunction of camera, but is not...
 
Reason I shoot in 24fps (only sometime):
Propellers shadow = flicker all image.
In 30 FPS at SS somewhere between 1/500-1/650 all image start to flicker if there is sun above drone.
I made some tests with E2P and conclusion was at 4K Normal footage, 1PM hour, sun partly covered by clouds with a sharp angle from above the drone:
- 30 FPS SS 1/650, Manual ISO100, Manual WB = image start to flicker as the propeller shadow is syncing with the SS and FPS and appears in image, causing a flicker on lower, middle and upper parts (not only upper).
- 24 FPS, all the same = image not flickering anymore, as is "blending" a little more, enough to pass the shadow from props...
I must admin I did not have the ND filters in that day with me, as was a small commercial and I was a little lazy....but was enough to see why sometime we have a lot of flicker in all image, not only in upper part...
At first I thought is from Defog or Anti-Flicker settings, as even with the sun covered by clouds, that flicker appeared. Seems that the New props (low noise) are longer and cause this thing.
Hope this helps, some thought is a malfunction of camera, but is not...

There is always flicker when the light from the sun passes through the props prior to hitting the lens, this is typically called prop shadow. The simple fix is to change the relationship between the drone and the sun in a way where the key light (the sun) does not pass through the props first. This can be accomplished by rotating the drone until the prop shadow is eliminated or tilting the camera.

Slowing the shutter speed is another approach some have used to try to eliminate it; this blurs the flicker with the intent to try to make the entire shadow occur while the shutter is closed but it is imperfect and mainly just results in a reduction in the affect. The only 100% solution that I have seen is to change relationship with the sun although one user did build a lens hood that was long enough to block the shadow but not so long that it was visible in the footage.

Personally I've never had a project that was so specific that I was not able to slightly adjust the angle of the camera and drone to eliminate it that way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Theborg
There is always flicker when the light from the sun passes through the props prior to hitting the lens, this is typically called prop shadow. The simple fix is to change the relationship between the drone and the sun in a way where the key light (the sun) does not pass through the props first. This can be accomplished by rotating the drone until the prop shadow is eliminated or tilting the camera.

Slowing the shutter speed is another approach some have used to try to eliminate it; this blurs the flicker with the intent to try to make the entire shadow occur while the shutter is closed but it is imperfect and mainly just results in a reduction in the affect. The only 100% solution that I have seen is to change relationship with the sun although one user did build a lens hood that was long enough to block the shadow but not so long that it was visible in the footage.

Personally I've never had a project that was so specific that I was not able to slightly adjust the angle of the camera and drone to eliminate it that way.
Had one strange thing today....strange that sun was pretty low for any flickers...
When I have changed the Aperture from 2.8 to 4.5, all image started to flicker...I needed to go back to AP 2.8...
Strange was another thing: the all image flickers even if i have moved to left or to right (same angle, just movement was made directly to left or right and so the drone angle was changed towards sun), also at 8.30AM the sun is too low to influence the shadow of propellers so high...not even 24/30/60fps helped, SS was FPS x2 all time (so was slow shutter). No ND.
I start thinking that is also combined with the influence of AP over 2.8 and side movement together with the angle of light...but something is not right....same settings, same angle: moving left and right : flickers...moving forward, backward: no flicker...But the drone have same orientation, nothing changed...just the movement...So...why this flicker on left-right but no flicker on FWRD-BKWD, as the sun had same angle in all movements and the drone did not made any Yaw (turn)?
Will test later all this...
 
Had one strange thing today....strange that sun was pretty low for any flickers...
When I have changed the Aperture from 2.8 to 4.5, all image started to flicker...I needed to go back to AP 2.8...
Strange was another thing: the all image flickers even if i have moved to left or to right (same angle, just movement was made directly to left or right and so the drone angle was changed towards sun), also at 8.30AM the sun is too low to influence the shadow of propellers so high...not even 24/30/60fps helped, SS was FPS x2 all time (so was slow shutter). No ND.
I start thinking that is also combined with the influence of AP over 2.8 and side movement together with the angle of light...but something is not right....same settings, same angle: moving left and right : flickers...moving forward, backward: no flicker...But the drone have same orientation, nothing changed...just the movement...So...why this flicker on left-right but no flicker on FWRD-BKWD, as the sun had same angle in all movements and the drone did not made any Yaw (turn)?
Will test later all this...

That is odd, I have never had that before, mine were always clearly due to the position of the sun. With the sun that low in the sky I've never had an issue; I've typically encountered it more when it is midday. I have noticed when it is really windy especially in a headwind the drone tilts forward more to compensate so the props are more likely to be in the shot and to cause flicker if the sun is high enough.

Your specific issue seems unique from what you described.
 
That is odd, I have never had that before, mine were always clearly due to the position of the sun. With the sun that low in the sky I've never had an issue; I've typically encountered it more when it is midday. I have noticed when it is really windy especially in a headwind the drone tilts forward more to compensate so the props are more likely to be in the shot and to cause flicker if the sun is high enough.

Your specific issue seems unique from what you described.
Yes...will keep testing to see how can be duplicated...I am not a novice in video, but this was a little odd...
Another strange fact was that in same area I have made a full Orbit just as a test to see in what angle appears the flicker (I presumed to be propeller and give it a try)....360 degrees...guess what...did not flickered :))))....
But I believe Orbit use AUTO mode...so in this case would be a sync of shadow and SS...but how, as the sun was low (7.47 sunrise, 8.10 to 8.30 the video, cloudy), wind was around 1m/s at most...
Strange...
 
One of the issues with high frame rate video (HFR) is that it can create the dreaded "soap opera effect." It's a bit difficult to describe in words, but it is a "hyper-real" effect which makes a scene look "fake" and like a Hollywood set instead of a real fantasy world. A famous example is The Hobbit which director Peter Jackson shot at a HFR which was wildly panned by audiences and critics--sure it made some smoother panning motion but every scene looked fake--it looked like you were watching people wearing fake beards and weird shoes instead of actual Hobbits and Elves. (The film was released in both regular and HFR modes). Jackson and others thought HFR would be the future, but instead Hollywood abandoned the plan and stuck with 24FPS.

So I am often shooting 24 FPS video with my *regular camera*, unless I am shooting very high speeds (120 or 240 FPS) which I will then slow down (ie shooting a waterfall at 120 FPS which I will then slow to 24FPS for smooth slo-mo).

But with my *drone* camera indeed I am typically shooting 30 FPS. There are occasions where I do want a certain "cinematic feel" that I will shoot in 24 FPS but generally the subject matter I'm shooting with drones is not anything that risks appearing "soap opera-y" in the first place so there's no damage done by shooting at a HFR. I've experimented with 60 FPS but it doesn't look very different than 30 FPS and has implications on your shutter speed and is double the data / storage size.

Also, some people absolutely cannot stand watching HFR content, and some seem to tolerate or even like it. Actor Tom Cruise was one of the first to publicly rant about it. Hotel TVs are notorious for being cheap models that will display horrible Soap Opera Effect without the ability to turn it off.

As far as the NTSC standard, that is essentially defunct; the newest ATSC 3.0 standard which replaces broadcast NTSC specifies from 24 up to 120 FPS; all the modes of the EVO II Pro are compatible.

One final note, even if you prefer the look of 24FPS (I generally do), where and how will people be viewing your video? Lots of common ways people view videos (particularly YouTube) are going to default at displaying video at 30 FPS, no matter how you shot it. A 24 FPS file will play back at 30 frames per second on YouTube.

This guy has a good video on why many (including most TV and film studios today) still choose to shoot in 24 FPS, and there is even more 24 FPS content today than ever.


Bottom line: There is a reason you have all the different formats available in your camera or drone. Different settings for different uses! Experiment and shoot what you like.
 
  • Like
Reactions: herein2021
One of the issues with high frame rate video (HFR) is that it can create the dreaded "soap opera effect." It's a bit difficult to describe in words, but it is a "hyper-real" effect which makes a scene look "fake" and like a Hollywood set instead of a real fantasy world. A famous example is The Hobbit which director Peter Jackson shot at a HFR which was wildly panned by audiences and critics--sure it made some smoother panning motion but every scene looked fake--it looked like you were watching people wearing fake beards and weird shoes instead of actual Hobbits and Elves. (The film was released in both regular and HFR modes). Jackson and others thought HFR would be the future, but instead Hollywood abandoned the plan and stuck with 24FPS.

Great post, and even greater video, and yes I did watch all of it. Keep in mind for this thread I never stated or recommended to actually deliver at HFRs, with HFR being defined as 48FPS or higher. For this thread I simply stated my conclusions which is that I have found 30FPS to be easier to work with and it fixes a lot of the challenges that 24FPS can cause.

Also, 30FPS isn't really considered a high framerate so that hyper-realism that you mention doesn't occur at 30FPS; yes 30FPS has a little less motion blur, but still enough to somewhat mimic 24FPS. Also, in the video he mostly discussed delivering at 60P, capturing at a HFR and delivering at a HFR are two different things. You can capture at 60FPS and still deliver at 24FPS if you so choose; yes it will have the motion blur of a 1/120s+ shutter speed but the less smooth look of 24FPS.

But with my *drone* camera indeed I am typically shooting 30 FPS. There are occasions where I do want a certain "cinematic feel" that I will shoot in 24 FPS but generally the subject matter I'm shooting with drones is not anything that risks appearing "soap opera-y" in the first place so there's no damage done by shooting at a HFR. I've experimented with 60 FPS but it doesn't look very different than 30 FPS and has implications on your shutter speed and is double the data / storage size.

I shoot very often at 60FPS mainly because the type of content I shoot typically always has a moment or a few moments where slowing it down will increase the production value, but I always deliver at 30FPS. With drones, I used to always shoot in 60FPS as well because the gimbals were so bad that 60FPS gave you the ability to double the length of those few seconds where there was no jello, but these days drone gimbals have gotten so good that I mainly stick to 30FPS.

One final note, even if you prefer the look of 24FPS (I generally do), where and how will people be viewing your video? Lots of common ways people view videos (particularly YouTube) are going to default at displaying video at 30 FPS, no matter how you shot it. A 24 FPS file will play back at 30 frames per second on YouTube.

I have not found this to be the case, YouTube will display your video at whatever framerate you shot it at as long as your internet connection speed is fast enough up to 120FPS. If you right click any video on YT and go to Stats for Nerds it will show you the playback framerate; I have seen everything from 23FPS up to 60FPS there. On cell phones or desktops with poor Internet connections YT will automatically restrict the resolution and drop the framerate.

Bottom line: There is a reason you have all the different formats available in your camera or drone. Different settings for different uses! Experiment and shoot what you like.

I agree 100%, shoot whatever works for you and if you are shooting professionally then shoot whatever the customer requests. That's exactly why I titled this thread why I never shoot 24FPS vs why no one should ever shoot 24FPS. For me and the customers I shoot for, 30FPS is the better choice in every way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spicynujac
I have not found this to be the case, YouTube will display your video at whatever framerate you shot it at
Just checked and this is correct. What I was thinking of is how YouTube videos are at a *fixed* frame rate. In other words the frame rate cannot change in the middle of the video. All of the "comparison" videos I have watched where they are showing 24 fps vs 30 fps vs 60 fps, the video plays at a steady frame rate for the entire length (often 30FPS as that has become somewhat of a "standard" for non-cinema video). Which of course makes it hard to compare--you really need to watch 3 separate videos to compare 3 different frame rates.

(Watching with the nerd stats on is interesting: While much of the YouTube content is 30fps, it's curious to see how much is 24p; the commercials almost always are)
 
  • Like
Reactions: herein2021
Just checked and this is correct. What I was thinking of is how YouTube videos are at a *fixed* frame rate. In other words the frame rate cannot change in the middle of the video. All of the "comparison" videos I have watched where they are showing 24 fps vs 30 fps vs 60 fps, the video plays at a steady frame rate for the entire length (often 30FPS as that has become somewhat of a "standard" for non-cinema video). Which of course makes it hard to compare--you really need to watch 3 separate videos to compare 3 different frame rates.

(Watching with the nerd stats on is interesting: While much of the YouTube content is 30fps, it's curious to see how much is 24p; the commercials almost always are)

Yes, it is impossible to change the framerate mid video regardless of the platform it is being played from; the timeline framerate is fixed and the rendered framerate is fixed as well even if you playback a video locally; what can change is the bitrate also known as Variable Bit Rate (VBR) but that has nothing to do with the framerate. Those comparison videos with different framerates are typically not to show differences in delivery frame rates; like I alluded to earlier, there is a difference between the capture framerate and the delivery framerate.

When comparison videos show different framerates in the same video they are typically focused on minor nuances which are possible to see regardless of the delivery framerate such as if the camera sensor pixel bins or line skips when switching to higher frame rates, if there is worse low light performance at different framerates, if there is a crop at higher framerates etc. All of these differences can be seen in the comparison video regardless of the delivery framerate.

Most of the videos that I have seen that show 60FPS footage or 120FPS footage are then played back on a 30FPS timeline and 30FPS delivery framerate to show how the camera performs for slow motion. Some cameras especially older ones had significantly worse image quality when shooting at higher framerates; even some of the latest mirrorless cameras crop or pixel bin to prevent overheating at higher framerates so the comparison videos are a good way to see if the different framerates will meet your quality expectations prior to purchasing the camera.

(Watching with the nerd stats on is interesting: While much of the YouTube content is 30fps, it's curious to see how much is 24p; the commercials almost always are)

That is probably because many people have reached the same conclusions that I have; 30FPS is simply easier to work with but if your client has the budget to pay for a big enough production or mandates 24FPS then it is certainly what you will deliver at. Also, higher end commercial projects tend to require the absolute top quality footage which of course is RAW footage which has massive data rates; with RAW footage 24FPS will save a lot on storage just like the referenced YT video you linked earlier stated.
 
Last edited:
Another problem besides simple pan rotation when filming with 24 FPS is when the camera dollys, which causes a whole lot of other issues. This also rolls off onto drone footage. another issue with 24 FPS is 50 hurt and 60 hurt you also have to take into consideration when working with clips on your TL. Compounded to that interlacing footage for broadcasting was one of the dumbest ideas ever. Some folks argued that the results gave better motion. If you got 24 slices of bread in your loaf of bread cutting the slices in half won't give you more bread.
 
Excellent post. My only argument would be about your point that fast panning is improved by a higher frame rate. This may be true if filming at low resolution but now that we can shoot in 4K and higher, fast panning (where a lot of pixels change between frames) puts too great a strain on the delivery path. Current SD card technology is overstretched by 30fps pans at 4K and above. This in turn stresses the camera's compression algorithms resulting either in loss of image quality or dropped frames and stuttering.

I can't speak for the EVO 2 as I haven't flown either the 6K or 8K model; but they both use the same SD card technology as my EVO 1 and while it may cope with slow pans (fewer pixel changes per frame), it buckles under fast panning.
In reviewing videos I've shot with my Evo II Pro (as well as my underwater Nikon camera) the #1 thing leading to bad footage is panning or moving the camera too quickly.
It simply makes your videos look jerky, confusing, and disengages the interest of the viewer. The majority of the shots I trash are because the scene pans too quickly or jerks around from one side to another, or lacks a smooth motion and starts/stops too suddenly. It looks fake and jarring.

I've even changed the remote control to be "less responsive" / slower to turn when I push the controls, in order to make better, smoother, more professional looking video. So regardless of what is technically possible at any given frame rate, I choose to use a far slower pan or rotate speed in order to create better videos.
 
  • Like
Reactions: herein2021
In reviewing videos I've shot with my Evo II Pro (as well as my underwater Nikon camera) the #1 thing leading to bad footage is panning or moving the camera too quickly.
It simply makes your videos look jerky, confusing, and disengages the interest of the viewer. The majority of the shots I trash are because the scene pans too quickly or jerks around from one side to another, or lacks a smooth motion and starts/stops too suddenly. It looks fake and jarring.

I've even changed the remote control to be "less responsive" / slower to turn when I push the controls, in order to make better, smoother, more professional looking video. So regardless of what is technically possible at any given frame rate, I choose to use a far slower pan or rotate speed in order to create better videos.

I personally almost never pan. I don't like saying never, but panning is as close to never as it gets even with my regular cinema cameras.

With drones I almost always use arcs/orbits when I want to reveal a lateral scene, panning these days just doesn't look professional to me even if it is done slowly in most scenarios.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule such as tracking shots, but those look ok since you have a central point of reference that you are following vs a pan where you really have nothing to focus on and you just hope it's over soon.

For the starts/stops I simply don't show them. I always jump cut a split second into or out of a clip while the camera is already moving.....only with tracking shots do I show the start and end of the camera movement. Little details like that really improve the production value without any additional work.

A lot of newcomers to the video production side of things try to use the camera to tell the story instead of letting the story tell itself. We have all seen the crazy Hollywood camera movements and newcomers think they can just grab a camera and replicate that. The reality is that those movements are usually backed by $1M+ camera stabilizer rigs and teams of people with decades of experience. With camera movements less is more, a stationary camera filming interesting content will always look better than crazy cameras moves filming boring content.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spicynujac
I personally almost never pan.
With camera movements less is more, a stationary camera filming interesting content will always look better than crazy cameras moves filming boring content.
If you are shooting video, you are using SOME type of motion right?
Or do you sometimes just film a static scene from high in the sky (ie tripod mode)? (then why not just take a photo?)

Why is an arc or orbit a different viewing experience than a pan?
Do you mean using the Autopilot to more smoothly handle the movements?
Or just flying the drone at an angle so the movement is less jarring (ie diagonal flight across a scene instead of rotating the camera from a static position in the sky)

I do agree that in general with video (ESPECIALLY a "regular" camera) the less movement the better, but I thought one of the appeals of drone shots, was flying over something cool. I always have camera movement (active flight) in my drone videos.
But I am pretty noob with video in general, being a photo guy.
 

Latest threads

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
11,227
Messages
102,650
Members
9,818
Latest member
redwingaerials