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Something I noticed: This Autel Forum seems too have more sain minds in it than DJI forum. Freedom is its Bedrock.

quinn karter

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Even though, those of us that fly Autel regardless of the quirks some these drones may or may not have. Most of the operators in this forum seem to have more sensibility than the DJI forums. Autel pilots are less "anal" if you will. Yes, we too follow the rules, but it's up to us. Not some automated forced software restrictions. We follow the rules, but aren't forced too. DJI sucks the life out of drones being fun. Registering ourselves with DJI sucks. DJI can't fly unless you make an acct!? wtf. You can't fly a DJI for way too many reasons. I just love the fact that autel gives the operators the decision making. When I drive my car, buy a gun, go grocery shopping, I don't have anyone telling me what to do. I just know what to do and how to stay out of trouble. Autel owners follow the rules. Yeah, I know DJI has more market share and thus there are always articles about them getting in trouble, but you never hear about an autel pilot violating a rule or getting in some accident. I just wanted to tell everyone how much I appreciate Autel and it "give the responsibility to the operator" attitude. I only have One DJI drone now, The Air2S as a backup for my 6k and 8k autel drones. I started with DJI M2P, Zoom, Mini, MavAir2, but now only have one. Sold the others after getting familiar with my 2 Autels. They are the best. I do more surveillance type stuff, so the AUtel's zoom features come in quite handy. Their lifting power is incredible, allowing me to put heavy night spot lights on it at night. The M2P can't handle as much weight and its battery and distance are significantly limited as compared to y EVO2s. The resolution of 6k and large sensor destroy anything the M2P offers. Both my DJI's and AUtels had high powered modified antennas. The Autel would win any range/interference tests each time.

AUTEL POWER !
 
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I had some initial start up issues (And all were resolved 100% by Autel Warranty 100%) and now after 100 flights later on my EVO II & EVO II Pro - No issues and guess what - DJI hasn't geo fenced me - Oh smack I sold all of the Dji - Happy Flying and yes I agree.
 

GeekOnTheWing

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I think people who buck the trend and buy a less-popular brand of product (especially when there's little or no money saved, and in fact they may be spending more) tend to research their purchases more carefully. That selects for people who have more of an analytical approach to life.
 
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For me it isn't or never was the money, it was I can't fly and that cost me a lot of money. (107 Flyer that does about 30 to 45 flights a month for Law Firms in South Florida). I Had LAANC Approval and DJI still would not unlock. Also Autel battery cycle life is 75% higher than DJI so battery last longer, list goes on and on and yes most dont get nor can they comprehend.
 

herein2021

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Even though, those of us that fly Autel regardless of the quirks some these drones may or may not have. Most of the operators in this forum seem to have more sensibility than the DJI forums. Autel pilots are less "anal" if you will. Yes, we too follow the rules, but it's up to us. Not some automated forced software restrictions. We follow the rules, but aren't forced too. DJI sucks the life out of drones being fun. Registering ourselves with DJI sucks. DJI can't fly unless you make an acct!? wtf. You can't fly a DJI for way too many reasons. I just love the fact that autel gives the operators the decision making. When I drive my car, buy a gun, go grocery shopping, I don't have anyone telling me what to do. I just know what to do and how to stay out of trouble. Autel owners follow the rules. Yeah, I know DJI has more market share and thus there are always articles about them getting in trouble, but you never hear about an autel pilot violating a rule or getting in some accident. I just wanted to tell everyone how much I appreciate Autel and it "give the responsibility to the operator" attitude. I only have One DJI drone now, The Air2S as a backup for my 6k and 8k autel drones. I started with DJI M2P, Zoom, Mini, MavAir2, but now only have one. Sold the others after getting familiar with my 2 Autels. They are the best. I do more surveillance type stuff, so the AUtel's zoom features come in quite handy. Their lifting power is incredible, allowing me to put heavy night spot lights on it at night. The M2P can't handle as much weight and its battery and distance are significantly limited as compared to y EVO2s. The resolution of 6k and large sensor destroy anything the M2P offers. Both my DJI's and AUtels had high powered modified antennas. The Autel would win any range/interference tests each time.

AUTEL POWER !

I think part of it is sheer numbers. With DJI owning at least 80% of the US drone market you have a lot of room for more personalities including negative ones. With more people always comes more bad apples...and the bad ones tend to ruin it for everyone else.

Although I do want Autel to succeed (otherwise there would literally be no alternative to DJI), I am kind of glad they are not as well known especially the fact that there is no geofencing. All it will take is for a drone to bring down an airliner for the FAA to completely eliminate nearly every possible use of a drone.

I still tell the story of meeting a client at a building that was literally beside a local airport. From the rooftop you could look down and watch planes taking off and landing. When the client asked if I was going to film a portion of her project with a drone I said of course not, this is restricted airspace. She replied "but a pulmonary surgeon that also lives in this building flies his all the time. For some reason though he's on his 3rd drone because something keeps forcing it to crash". It was nearly incomprehensible to me that an open heart surgeon didn't have the common sense to realize he couldn't fly drones there; my next thought was...where are all of these drones crashing into? Of course I did not tell her that that "something" was geofencing and that there were drones without it......for all I know the next time I check the news it could be that he had flown into an airliner with a drone that has no geofencing.

So yes, DJI's geofencing and endless nagging (registration, activation, beyond line of sight warning, strong wind warning, geofencing database out of date warning, drone is above the takeoff point use caution warning, etc, etc. etc) is extremely annoying to the people that actually follow the rules. But I truly think that without all of that; someone would have collided with an airliner by now. I also truly think that DJI uses their registration process to spy on users but that is a different topic for a different day.
 

quinn karter

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I think part of it is sheer numbers. With DJI owning at least 80% of the US drone market you have a lot of room for more personalities including negative ones. With more people always comes more bad apples...and the bad ones tend to ruin it for everyone else.

Although I do want Autel to succeed (otherwise there would literally be no alternative to DJI), I am kind of glad they are not as well known especially the fact that there is no geofencing. All it will take is for a drone to bring down an airliner for the FAA to completely eliminate nearly every possible use of a drone.

I still tell the story of meeting a client at a building that was literally beside a local airport. From the rooftop you could look down and watch planes taking off and landing. When the client asked if I was going to film a portion of her project with a drone I said of course not, this is restricted airspace. She replied "but a pulmonary surgeon that also lives in this building flies his all the time. For some reason though he's on his 3rd drone because something keeps forcing it to crash". It was nearly incomprehensible to me that an open heart surgeon didn't have the common sense to realize he couldn't fly drones there; my next thought was...where are all of these drones crashing into? Of course I did not tell her that that "something" was geofencing and that there were drones without it......for all I know the next time I check the news it could be that he had flown into an airliner with a drone that has no geofencing.

So yes, DJI's geofencing and endless nagging (registration, activation, beyond line of sight warning, strong wind warning, geofencing database out of date warning, drone is above the takeoff point use caution warning, etc, etc. etc) is extremely annoying to the people that actually follow the rules. But I truly think that without all of that; someone would have collided with an airliner by now. I also truly think that DJI uses their registration process to spy on users but that is a different topic for a different day.
Regarding the crashes. If this cardiopulmonary surgeon has a dji, and he takes off before the GPS knows his exact location, the DJI will automatically cause a forced landing when it realizes it's in a geofenced area, thus the assumption that it crashed.
 

herein2021

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Regarding the crashes. If this cardiopulmonary surgeon has a dji, and he takes off before the GPS knows his exact location, the DJI will automatically cause a forced landing when it realizes it's in a geofenced area, thus the assumption that it crashed.

Yes I was aware of that but was certainly not going to provide that tip to her who may pass it on to the irresponsible drone owner. Thing is, the building was about 150' tall with traffic passing by on all 4 corners; I can only imagine where all of those forced landings ended up.
 

kenautelevo2pro

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I think part of it is sheer numbers. With DJI owning at least 80% of the US drone market you have a lot of room for more personalities including negative ones. With more people always comes more bad apples...and the bad ones tend to ruin it for everyone else.

Although I do want Autel to succeed (otherwise there would literally be no alternative to DJI), I am kind of glad they are not as well known especially the fact that there is no geofencing. All it will take is for a drone to bring down an airliner for the FAA to completely eliminate nearly every possible use of a drone.

I still tell the story of meeting a client at a building that was literally beside a local airport. From the rooftop you could look down and watch planes taking off and landing. When the client asked if I was going to film a portion of her project with a drone I said of course not, this is restricted airspace. She replied "but a pulmonary surgeon that also lives in this building flies his all the time. For some reason though he's on his 3rd drone because something keeps forcing it to crash". It was nearly incomprehensible to me that an open heart surgeon didn't have the common sense to realize he couldn't fly drones there; my next thought was...where are all of these drones crashing into? Of course I did not tell her that that "something" was geofencing and that there were drones without it......for all I know the next time I check the news it could be that he had flown into an airliner with a drone that has no geofencing.

So yes, DJI's geofencing and endless nagging (registration, activation, beyond line of sight warning, strong wind warning, geofencing database out of date warning, drone is above the takeoff point use caution warning, etc, etc. etc) is extremely annoying to the people that actually follow the rules. But I truly think that without all of that; someone would have collided with an airliner by now. I also truly think that DJI uses their registration process to spy on users but that is a different topic for a different day.
you had me on your side up until here "But I truly think that without all of that; someone would have collided with an airliner by now." and then you won me back two-fold after this "I also truly think that DJI uses their registration process to spy on users but that is a different topic for a different day." :)
 
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herein2021

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you had me on your side up until here "But I truly think that without all of that; someone would have collided with an airliner by now." and then you won me back two-fold after this "I also truly think that DJI uses their registration process to spy on users but that is a different topic for a different day." :)

What I have seen and been asked to do first hand as well as some of the YouTube videos I've seen online make me believe that because I know it is only the tip of the iceburg. I've seen people flying their drones in restricted areas literally while planes land at an airport less than a block away, I've actually been asked to use a drone to film an airplane hangar that was just built at the airport beside the runway, I've been asked to film the progression of a construction project on a military airforce base, etc. etc. Based on the sheer numbers of DJI drones and the stupidity exhibited by some of their owners I have no doubt that DJI's geofencing has prevented a catastrophe. DJI enacted it to restrict the lowest common denominator of a drone pilot; of course this means responsible owners are impacted as well.

Lets not forget all of the drunks flying at their parties for their social media only a few feet over people's heads and only a block from an airport (I've seen that first hand too), or the endless weddings, parties, events that I've said no to that were within restricted airspace and that I know they just went out and found someone else who would do the job. I travelled quite a bit before the pandemic and it got to where I would think about the number of drones that could be in the air around the airport while landing and taking off.
 

GeekOnTheWing

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you had me on your side up until here "But I truly think that without all of that; someone would have collided with an airliner by now." and then you won me back two-fold after this "I also truly think that DJI uses their registration process to spy on users but that is a different topic for a different day." :)

I think it's inevitable that the drone ecosystem will evolve into something similar to Part 61, for two reasons.

The first is that every time in my life, without exception, that I've said, "No one could possibly be that stupid," I've been wrong.

With drones, there's a certain amount of extended Darwinism that prevents tragedies: The really stupid users often crash their drones into trees before they can do serious harm to others. But that only goes so far. Eventually someone will cause some sort of catastrophe.

Which brings me to the second reason: As a society (especially in America), we've become absurdly risk-averse. Too many people believe that we can legislate into existence a perfect world wherein nothing bad ever happens to anyone. If the current mindset prevailed in the late 1800's and early 1900's, there probably wouldn't even be such a thing as aviation. It would have been preemptively outlawed.

The first drone-related tragedy undoubtedly will trigger politicians racing to their podiums promising to enact laws to insure that "nothing like this will ever happen again." And the people will cheer.

FAA has plans to require training for hobbyist drone operators. I expect that this will morph into an actual certification analogous to, say, Sport Pilot. Or they may allow AMA or similar organizations to operate the certification program. But one way or another, hobby drone use is going to become more regulated.

For my part, I think that's a good thing, albeit difficult to enforce. People fly manned airplanes with no certificates whatsoever and get away with it for years. How much more difficult will it be to regulate a product that can be bought off-the-shelf at camera shops and electronics stores?

If done right, however, it may become a status symbol. That could work.

As for DJI spying, I suspect it's probably true. Data is big business these days.
 
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herein2021

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I think it's inevitable that the drone ecosystem will evolve into something similar to Part 61, for two reasons.

The first is that every time in my life, without exception, that I've said, "No one could possibly be that stupid," I've been wrong.

With drones, there's a certain amount of extended Darwinism that prevents tragedies: The really stupid users often crash their drones into trees before they can do serious harm to others. But that only goes so far. Eventually someone will cause some sort of catastrophe.

Which brings me to the second reason: As a society (especially in America), we've become absurdly risk-averse. Too many people believe that we can legislate into existence a perfect world wherein nothing bad ever happens to anyone. If the current mindset prevailed in the late 1800's and early 1900's, there probably wouldn't even be such a thing as aviation. It would have been preemptively outlawed.

The first drone-related tragedy undoubtedly will trigger politicians racing to their podiums promising to enact laws to insure that "nothing like this will ever happen again." And the people will cheer.

FAA has plans to require training for hobbyist drone operators. I expect that this will morph into an actual certification analogous to, say, Sport Pilot. Or they may allow AMA or similar organizations to operate the certification program. But one way or another, hobby drone use is going to become more regulated.

For my part, I think that's a good thing, albeit difficult to enforce. People fly manned airplanes with no certificates whatsoever and get away with it for years. How much more difficult will it be to regulate a product that can be bought off-the-shelf at camera shops and electronics stores?

If done right, however, it may become a status symbol. That could work.

As for DJI spying, I suspect it's probably true. Data is big business these days.

I think it will be far worse than you predict....if a single drone brings down an airliner (possibly anywhere in the world), I can easily see the FAA banning all drone flights period unless you are a big corporation or possibly a licensed drone pilot. They have plenty of other tools in their belt as well such as making the licensing process so difficult that many people just don't bother (like in Europe), or restricted to nothing more than hobbyist fields (like the current RID free zones), or the drone registration process nearly impossible (like airplane type ratings).

If you think I am wrong then look at all of the Federal, State, and Local restrictions that have been enacted against drones and that is before anything major has happened with an airliner. It has already gotten to the point due to local laws that taking off or landing nearly anywhere in the state of FL violates some local ordinance. Sure the FAA controls the airspace, but the local governments can certainly prevent you from taking off or landing within their jurisdiction. And these laws were enacted just because drone pilots were being a nuisance; imagine if they started playing the public safety card due to a major airline collision event.

What this will then do in turn is make it unprofitable for the drone companies to even bother continuing to produce hobbyist/consumer/prosumer level drones and instead they will focus on the 6 figure commercial drones or maybe get into the autonomous taxi business. And going back to that major airline incident....if it happens in America there's no way the families will not sue the drone company...further de-incentivizing them to make consumer grade drones.

So yes, I absolutely think DJI's onerous geofencing is necessary while simultaneously applauding Autel for giving us an alternative but I also think we have been very lucky so far and luck can only last but for so long.
 
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GeekOnTheWing

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I think it will be far worse than you predict....if a single drone brings down an airliner (possibly anywhere in the world), I can easily see the FAA banning all drone flights period unless you are a big corporation or possibly a licensed drone pilot. They have plenty of other tools in their belt as well such as making the licensing process so difficult that many people just don't bother (like in Europe), or restricted to nothing more than hobbyist fields (like the current RID free zones).

If you think I am wrong then look at all of the Federal, State, and Local restrictions that have been enacted against drones and that is before anything major has happened with an airliner. It has already gotten to the point due to local laws that taking off or landing nearly anywhere in the state of FL violates some local ordinance. Sure the FAA controls the airspace, but the local governments can certainly prevent you from taking off or landing within their jurisdiction. And these laws were enacted just because drone pilots were being a nuisance; imagine if they started playing the public safety card due to a major airline collision event.

What this will then do in turn is make it unprofitable for the drone companies to even bother continuing to produce hobbyist/consumer/prosumer level drones and instead they will focus on the 6 figure commercial drones or maybe get into the autonomous taxi business.

So yes, I absolutely think DJI's onerous geofencing is necessary while simultaneously applauding Autel for giving us an alternative but I also think we have been very lucky so far and luck can only last but for so long.
I'm more worried about the state and local restrictions.

FAA has traditionally been reasonable. They also tend to staff departments with people who are passionate about those realms. I've really never met an FAA rep who wasn't an advocate for whatever aspect of aviation they were regulating or enforcing, and my experience goes back more than 40 years.

I also think the training provision in the current hobby exemption, although unenforceable right now because no such courses exist, is an attempt to forestall more onerous regulations.

The problem is that "training" can't be revoked. To add some teeth and get the worst idiots out of the airspace, it has to be a revocable certificate.
 
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herein2021

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I'm more worries about the state and local restrictions.

FAA has traditionally been reasonable. They also tend to staff departments with people who are passionate about those realms. I've really never met an FAA rep who wasn't an advocate for whatever aspect of aviation they were regulating or enforcing, and my experience goes back more than 40 years.

I also think the training provision in the current hobby exemption, although unenforceable right now because no such courses exist, is an attempt to forestall more onerous regulations.

The problem is that "training" can't be revoked. To add some teeth and get the worst idiots out of the airspace, it has to be a revocable certificate.

I am more worried about the Federal government level maybe not even the FAA....the state and local governments are a royal pain and have enacted laws in many cases strictly based on their distaste for drones...and yes the FAA's current drone laws are far more reasonable; but if a major incident does occur it is the Federal government who can force drone makers to cease and desist completely (via import/export restrictions), or to comply with some very onerous unlocking/notification/restrictive process (like the RID mandate).
 

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Here is my two cents, after having been around drones for quite a while and having seen first hand DJI code that has been reverse engineered.

1. DJI steals your info. This is why they MANDATE that you log into their app. Sure, you can firewall it after you do so (I do) but as soon as that app is allowed internet access, to update maps, update the app etc. Guess what? Data goes to DJI. No, this is not the same "tracking" info that other apps use. DJI always denied it, but we released videos and info showing what they do. Moving on. (oh, and Autel doesn't mandate that you log into their app to identify any data that you send to them, unless you give the app permission to do so, like flight logs etc. You get a choice) Wait...what is that you say DJI Fanboi? DJI released a non-data stealing version of their app? Why of course they did, after considerable pressure. Full app with just no data "theft"? Of course not. They removed almost all features. Now why would they do such a thing? Perhaps they really don't want you using that app and since you really, REALLY want all the features the app has to offer, why not forget about that data "theft" thing and just use the full app? Hmmmm? Oh and of course all your DJI drones automatically and no you can't turn this off...broadcast a digital license plate when you fly, that can easily be spoofed with a simple home router, with your flight info, GPS position of the drone at all times, Serial number, GPS location where you are flying from, and when cross checked against the DJI Database, all your personal info. You do remember logging into that app, right? ;)

2. DJI Geo Fencing scheme. DJI took a huge gamble with their lock downs and DJI NFZ scheme. They did this for one huge reason. They wanted (and probably still do)to sell their NFZ/Geo Fencing software to the other drone makers.....they weasled their way and led a US Govt. group to study and come up with NFZ guidelines/software that they hoped would be made MANDATORY for all drones sold around the world. Surprise! It would of course be a DJI Solution...imagine that! Along the way, despite the money spent and a certain lawyer representing DJI spreading falsehoods far and wide about how honorable DJI is as a company, and they would NEVER, EVER do anything "bad", or "steal" any of your flight/phone/device info...they got caught, and Surprise! They also wanted you to forget that they are a CCP company and required by CCP law to share any and all info the company collects directly with CCP. Now before you get all bunched up, yes you are correct. Autel is also a Chinese company, and by CCP law, MUST share any and all info collected to CCP. All Chinese companies must comply by law.

3. Autel tries to tell you that they are a US based company. While they have offices in the USA, and really try to tell you the drones are made in the US...we all know they are a Chinese company. Not saying all Chines companies are "bad", just that by Chinese law, they must share data with CCP.

4. Drones and big tech. Big tech doesn't want you flying in "their" airspace. They want to own 400' to 500' airspace so that they can send you Amazon packages and not be bothered by any of you "little people" flying for recreation. They can't have that. So I predict they will continue to spend gobs of money trying to push all of us out of the drone flying business, or limit you to a specific flying area, like AMA fields. One can only hope that the FAA continues to support hobby flying and don't regulate us all out of existence...only allowing big tech with all the cash to be the only ones in the sky.

With millions of drones out there, and rarely any documented instances of injury or even death, (has anyone actually died as a result of a hobby drone?) I think that while of course the possibility is always there for dumb people to do dumb things, the threat of serious injury is way overblown. The only thing we all can do is be responsible for our own flights, and help educate the "ignorant" drone pilots out there and of course be safe as possible in any flights we make. Anyone with evil intent will not follow any law that is made anyway, and I have faith that 99% of drone pilots are responsible people. Lets just hope that the stupid people out there that don't follow the rules, don't ruin it for everyone else.

IMHO - DJI still makes the best drones for the money, but I am super happy with the progress Autel has made and as of right now, they have the best cameras on fold-able drones right now. Where this hobby goes from here is anyone's guess. It seems that major development is being made in the sub 250grams drone market. I think this is great. 250grams is so light weight, you could probably drop one on someones head and they could walk away with maybe a scratch. Drop a big DJI or Evo II on someone and game over. Power to weight ratio will continue to improve with these drones, making them more able to carry better cameras etc, as long as they keep the weight under 250grams, all good. Rumor is, is that Autel is working on a "mini" type drone, so we shall see what they come up with.
 

quinn karter

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What will we do if the government makes us only fly in designated areas? I doubt it will happen, but if it did, I would just start flying in "stealth mode" ie. Fly very high, Turn all lights off, Paint the drone to match the sky, when chased fly so high that drone becomes impossible to see, find a secluded location in the woods to land,hide and wait until the drone is no longer chased by authorities, and any other things you can think up. I actually found a place to land about 1000ft away from me to land and hide on top of a semi trailer container. I'm ready for armageddon.;):cool:
 
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