Flying over Night Fog Charlotte, NC

tvwxman · Dec 8, 2020

Hi all,

I really enjoyed this moment. I was *just* barely outside of controlled airspace while trying to get as close to Charlotte's skyline as possible Thanksgiving night. When the fog hit late Thursday evening out I went. I was thwarted on previous occasions when I hit 400 feet and showed no sign of breaking through the fog. Homerun this time. Broke through the fog at 300 feet and had another 100 feet of wiggle room to get higher and a better angle on both the fog and city.

I can't get over the low light performance of these Autel EVO 2 Pro sensors. Granted it wasn't quite this silky right out of the camera, but it required very little tweaking. I ran it through Adobe Premier Pro and with a slight assist from the plug-in from Neat Video and after I crushed the blacks a little, goodbye noise. I was also impressed with the lack of banding, or false contouring in either the sky or the fog as I descended. I shot this in the log profile at ISO 800. I was mad at myself later because realized I shot this in the h.264 codec and not the h.265 codec which provides 10-Bit video. Nonetheless, still happy with the results.

From a safety standpoint, I had no problem maintaining visual contact with the drone. As you can see from the video, no problem seeing the lights below. I only flew it down and back a couple hundred feet and landed. I didn't want to press my luck. Enjoy!

Eric

J Lo's Behind · Dec 8, 2020

very cool

Jagerbomb52 · Dec 8, 2020

Nice video. Years ago I flew up into the fog in a river valley. Just starting out in the hobby I never thought about all the things that could go wrong. Once breaking through the fog I realized seeing the UAV which was 5 times bigger then a EVO at the time was hit or miss. I could hear it just fine but could I hear any approaching aircraft over the UAV noise? Not sure and glad I never had to find out. When landing the UAV was soaking wet. Guessing I got lucky as wet and electronics do not like each other

Flying at night in the US I understand you need anti-collision lights and be visible from at 3 miles away at night. Not owning the EVO II does it have such lighting built into it? That would be a bonus if it does.

REStewart · Dec 12, 2020

Beautiful video. I bought the Neat Video to clean up some super 8 digitized videos and it was incredible. I have had it on photoshop for years (do a lot of stage stuff which intrinsically is noisy). Since have starting using it for all my videos including drone shots. Staying out of B airspace in Charlotte is a challenge; beautiful city. Keep up the good work.

tvwxman · Dec 12, 2020

REStewart said:
Beautiful video. I bought the Neat Video to clean up some super 8 digitized videos and it was incredible. I have had it on photoshop for years (do a lot of stage stuff which intrinsically is noisy). Since have starting using it for all my videos including drone shots. Staying out of B airspace in Charlotte is a challenge; beautiful city. Keep up the good work.

So true about Charlotte, the airport is too close haha! Luckily during the day you can still launch practically at the base of the buildings from some of the city parks. However even during the day B airspace keeps me at 250 feet or below. But after daylight hours the controlled airspace pushes you well away and I'm very jealous of other drone Pilots who get those incredible shots of their cities after dark from so close up.

Yes neat video is great, bit of a learning curve between deciding whether to use temporal or spatial noise reduction but either way I have found less is more. One thing is for sure it does really slow down the rendering, I need a faster computer. I'd like to step up to either a 12 or 16 core AMD processor one of these days, only running an Intel 4 core 8 thread at the moment. I build computers and I built a 12 core 24 thread for a friend of mine and it made me sick how fast it was when we ran a test on it.

I did not realize neat video was available for Photoshop. I have been pretty happy with the noise reduction in Lightroom and I also have darktable installed which has done fairly well for me at times too. Glad you mentioned that thanks for the tip. And thanks again for the kind words.

BeeRAD56 · Dec 12, 2020

Beautiful footage!

Curious, how you get around cloud clearance rules?

Slacker · Dec 12, 2020

BeeRAD56 said:
Beautiful footage!

Curious, how you get around cloud clearance rules?

Same question

tvwxman · Dec 13, 2020

Hi guys,

Glad you asked. As a recreational pilot, here are the rules from the FAA's website:

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

I made sure I adhered to every rule on this page. I am aware of additional requirements for commercial 107 pilots regarding clouds, but I am going under the assumption as a recreational pilot, the information I pasted here is accurate for me.

With that said, and perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but this was very thin ground fog as opposed to actual clouds. It looks *way* thicker when looking across it versus vertically as I had zero problem seeing it at all times, and I'm referring to the red/green orientation lights. I didn't need the strobe light at all, but turned it on anyway for extra insurance.

My bigger question for night flying revolves around night flying period. Again, the FAA information I just provide here says you can fly at night with the proper lights. But in other corners I hear you need a waiver and in other corners I hear the FAA is doing away with that. So it all gets rather confusing after awhile. If you have some information for me that definitively states I violated a rule for a recreational pilot, please provide it, I want to maintain high standards for our hobby. Thanks!

tvwxman · Dec 13, 2020

Agustine said:
Nice video. Years ago I flew up into the fog in a river valley. Just starting out in the hobby I never thought about all the things that could go wrong. Once breaking through the fog I realized seeing the UAV which was 5 times bigger then a EVO at the time was hit or miss. I could hear it just fine but could I hear any approaching aircraft over the UAV noise? Not sure and glad I never had to find out. When landing the UAV was soaking wet. Guessing I got lucky as wet and electronics do not like each other

Flying at night in the US I understand you need anti-collision lights and be visible from at 3 miles away at night. Not owning the EVO II does it have such lighting built into it? That would be a bonus if it does.

Wow, I answered your post and I'm not seeing it here now, did I not hit the send button? Sheesh, I really enjoyed your comments, so here we go again... The fog I was in was rather thin, it looks deceiving when looking across it toward the city. That might be the reason why my drone was not wet when it returned. So that was nice to see since, as you pointed out, a soaking wet drone isn't exactly recommended.

I've been using the E2P's strobe light as my answer to the anti-collision question, but you got me thinking about it and even though I can easily see it at long ranges (never tested it at 3 miles), you can't see it from above, so I'm ordering the Lumecube to put that question to bed for me. It's odd though, if you look at the FAA page and rules for recreational pilots, there is no mention of anti-collision lights for night flying. But I do know in other corners that is mentioned as a requirement. I've also heard you need a night waiver, but again, not mentioned on this information page:

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

I guess we'll all continue to try and sort all this out!

BeeRAD56 · Dec 13, 2020

tvwxman said:
Wow, I answered your post and I'm not seeing it here now, did I not hit the send button? Sheesh, I really enjoyed your comments, so here we go again... The fog I was in was rather thin, it looks deceiving when looking across it toward the city. That might be the reason why my drone was not wet when it returned. So that was nice to see since, as you pointed out, a soaking wet drone isn't exactly recommended.

I've been using the E2P's strobe light as my answer to the anti-collision question, but you got me thinking about it and even though I can easily see it at long ranges (never tested it at 3 miles), you can't see it from above, so I'm ordering the Lumecube to put that question to bed for me. It's odd though, if you look at the FAA page and rules for recreational pilots, there is no mention of anti-collision lights for night flying. But I do know in other corners that is mentioned as a requirement. I've also heard you need a night waiver, but again, not mentioned on this information page:

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

I guess we'll all continue to try and sort all this out!

Regarding lights, the Fox Fury system for the Evo 2 is a nice setup from my experience.

tvwxman · Dec 13, 2020

BeeRAD56 said:
Regarding lights, the Fox Fury system for the Evo 2 is a nice setup from my experience.

Ha! Yes, that thing looks awesome. I asked for it for my birthday last month, then backed off and told my family not to worry about it. Still thinking about it though.

Jagerbomb52 · Dec 14, 2020

tvwxman said:
Wow, I answered your post and I'm not seeing it here now, did I not hit the send button? Sheesh, I really enjoyed your comments, so here we go again... The fog I was in was rather thin, it looks deceiving when looking across it toward the city. That might be the reason why my drone was not wet when it returned. So that was nice to see since, as you pointed out, a soaking wet drone isn't exactly recommended.

I've been using the E2P's strobe light as my answer to the anti-collision question, but you got me thinking about it and even though I can easily see it at long ranges (never tested it at 3 miles), you can't see it from above, so I'm ordering the Lumecube to put that question to bed for me. It's odd though, if you look at the FAA page and rules for recreational pilots, there is no mention of anti-collision lights for night flying. But I do know in other corners that is mentioned as a requirement. I've also heard you need a night waiver, but again, not mentioned on this information page:

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

I guess we'll all continue to try and sort all this out!

Yes I think the rules will become very clear in 2021 once remote ID starts to roll out and the FAA finally gets the exam out for hobby flyers that is expected early 2021. For me here in Canada it is very black and white. Flying under those conditions would be a big no.

Very first rule on Transport Canadas Regulations Amending the Canadian Aviation Regulations (Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems)

Reckless or Negligent Operation

900.06 No person shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of any person.

We also have to do a site survey which is not always done by a lot of pilots but if asked by a inspector you better have some kind of documentation. I have a couple of Apps on my phone that will do a pre flight survey and also one to record all my required fields of each and every flight. Might sound like a lot but it just becomes standard after a while.
g. of the site survey is something you need to think about for flying conditions.

Site Survey

901.27 No pilot shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system unless, before commencing operations, they determine that the site for take-off, launch, landing or recovery is suitable for the proposed operation by conducting a site survey that takes into account the following factors:

(a) the boundaries of the area of operation;
(b) the type of airspace and the applicable regulatory requirements;
(c) the altitudes and routes to be used on the approach to and departure from the area of operation;
(d) the proximity of manned aircraft operations;
(e) the proximity of aerodromes, airports and heliports;
(f) the location and height of obstacles, including wires, masts, buildings, cell phone towers and wind turbines;
(g) the predominant weather and environmental conditions for the area of operation; and
(h) the horizontal distances from persons not involved in the operation.

tvwxman · Dec 14, 2020

I remember watching a YouTube video of a couple guys mocking the Canadian rules and restrictions as they went through the routine and sequence preparing to launch a drone up there including putting out the four orange cones around the launch pad. I am not endorsing their message just simply recounting that video and indeed your post here definitely recalled the stringent regulations in your country.

Getting back to the fog specifically, that is an interesting and I still believe somewhat ambiguous area. I am a meteorologist and historically when reporting hourly observations the National Weather Service can designate any surface visibility below 7 miles as fog (assuming that is the culprit and not smoke or something else). So if that is the case, does that mean I can't put my drone up in the air with 6 miles visibility? Obviously that would seem extreme. Is there any rule that specifically states what the visibility threshold is? That would seem to make more sense if they don't want Pilots using their own judgment and Common Sense.

tvwxman · Dec 14, 2020

Agustine said:
Yes I think the rules will become very clear in 2021 once remote ID starts to roll out and the FAA finally gets the exam out for hobby flyers that is expected early 2021. For me here in Canada it is very black and white. Flying under those conditions would be a big no. Very first rule on Transport Canadas Regulations Amending the Canadian Aviation Regulations (Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems)

Reckless or Negligent Operation
900.06 No person shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system in such a reckless or negligent manner as to endanger or be likely to endanger aviation safety or the safety of any person.

We also have to do a site survey which is not always done by a lot of pilots but if asked by a inspector you better have some kind of documentation. I have a couple of Apps on my phone that will do a pre flight survey and also one to record all my required fields of each and every flight. Might sound like a lot but it just becomes standard after a while.
g. of the site survey is something you need to think about for flying conditions.

Site Survey
901.27 No pilot shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system unless, before commencing operations, they determine that the site for take-off, launch, landing or recovery is suitable for the proposed operation by conducting a site survey that takes into account the following factors:

(a) the boundaries of the area of operation;

(b) the type of airspace and the applicable regulatory requirements;

(c) the altitudes and routes to be used on the approach to and departure from the area of operation;

(d) the proximity of manned aircraft operations;

(e) the proximity of aerodromes, airports and heliports;

(f) the location and height of obstacles, including wires, masts, buildings, cell phone towers and wind turbines;

(g) the predominant weather and environmental conditions for the area of operation; and

(h) the horizontal distances from persons not involved in the operation.

Okay after more digging around, I did find an instructional video from Pilot Institute which did mention a 3 statute mile threshold for flying in fog so I will pay even closer attention to that going forward. Again, up until now I was sticking with the FAA guidelines I saw referencing recreational Pilot's which simply said to keep your drone within visual line-of-sight which I had no problem with in these conditions. Still learning. I've signed up for my part 107 which I will cram on over Christmas break.

Jagerbomb52 · Dec 14, 2020

Ya lots of stuff to consider. Manufactures specs for flying conditions come into play also. Here is more info in Canada and I suspect the FAA might consider the same rules.
Reading into this flying in fog is basically a no no.

Do not operate an Remotely Piloted Aircraft System (RPAS) in fog if visibility is too poor to maintain proper VLOS with the Remotely piloted aircraft (RPA), even if it is equipped with lights.
Fog represents condensed water droplets found at the ground level, or in other words, a low-level cloud. It usually brings precipitation in the form of drizzle and will cause low visibility conditions at ground level. This is of high concern for RPAS operations in VLOS, as direct visual contact will be greatly reduced in fog. Fog is dynamic, thus conditions at takeoff might change during the operation and cause a threat to the RPA, manned aircraft, and the public.

So now if "fog" is considered a low-level cloud then this would also apply.

3.2.22.5 Clouds
RPA pilots are prohibited from entering clouds as the RPA would no longer be within VLOS.
Clouds are a great source of meteorological information for pilots since they are a direct manifestation of the atmospheric conditions at a given moment. Clouds are classified as low, middle, or high altitude clouds and vertical development clouds. The cloud ceiling is important information for RPAS flight and is established based on the lowest layer of clouds on that day. Cloud conditions and types will be influenced by the presence of weather fronts, atmospheric pressure, winds, and topography. Information regarding cloud conditions for a given day can be found on the AWWS Cloud and Weather chart. For more information on this matter, please see MET–Meteorology 4.11 Clouds and Weather Chart of the TC AIM.

ducatstrada · Dec 15, 2020

tvwxman said:
Hi guys,

Glad you asked. As a recreational pilot, here are the rules from the FAA's website:

Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations

www.faa.gov

I made sure I adhered to every rule on this page. I am aware of additional requirements for commercial 107 pilots regarding clouds, but I am going under the assumption as a recreational pilot, the information I pasted here is accurate for me.

With that said, and perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but this was very thin ground fog as opposed to actual clouds. It looks *way* thicker when looking across it versus vertically as I had zero problem seeing it at all times, and I'm referring to the red/green orientation lights. I didn't need the strobe light at all, but turned it on anyway for extra insurance.

My bigger question for night flying revolves around night flying period. Again, the FAA information I just provide here says you can fly at night with the proper lights. But in other corners I hear you need a waiver and in other corners I hear the FAA is doing away with that. So it all gets rather confusing after awhile. If you have some information for me that definitively states I violated a rule for a recreational pilot, please provide it, I want to maintain high standards for our hobby. Thanks!

You flew into iFR

tvwxman said:
Okay after more digging around, I did find an instructional video from Pilot Institute which did mention a 3 statute mile threshold for flying in fog so I will pay even closer attention to that going forward. Again, up until now I was sticking with the FAA guidelines I saw referencing recreational Pilot's which simply said to keep your drone within visual line-of-sight which I had no problem with in these conditions. Still learning. I've signed up for my part 107 which I will cram on over Christmas break.

You flew into IFR weather. Illegal period. Video looks great though..

tvwxman · Dec 15, 2020

Hi ducatstrada, thank you for your input. Again I am just trying to clear this up in my own mind and the best way I can do that is continue referring directly to the FAA rules. I did not see any mention of VFR and IFR rules applying to this specific situation although I won't argue that it doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't the FAA make it as simple as you just did and throw down that rule? Rhetorical question I don't know the answer.

So here are the eight rules that must be followed laid out in section 44809 of the FAA rules for pilots flying under the exception for recreational Pilots. Number 7 does not apply yet.

49 U.S. Code § 44809 - Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft

(a)In General.—Except as provided in subsection (e), and notwithstanding chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, a person may operate a small unmanned aircraft without specific certification or operating authority from the Federal Aviation Administration if the operation adheres to all of the following limitations:
(1)
The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational purposes.
(2)
The aircraft is operated in accordance with or within the programming of a community-based organization’s set of safety guidelines that are developed in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration.
(3)
The aircraft is flown within the visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft or a visual observer co-located and in direct communication with the operator.
(4)
The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft.
(5)
In Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport, the operator obtains prior authorization from the Administrator or designee before operating and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.
(6)
In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground level and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.
(7)
The operator has passed an aeronautical knowledge and safety test described in subsection (g) and maintains proof of test passage to be made available to the Administrator or law enforcement upon request.
(8)
The aircraft is registered and marked in accordance with chapter 441 of this title and proof of registration is made available to the Administrator or a designee of the Administrator or law enforcement upon request.

ducatstrada · Dec 15, 2020

I might refer you to this video. Surely helped me out(as far as drones are concerned), I am a commercial pilot with instrument rating.

Are You Sure You Know the FAA Rules To Fly Under Recreation??? Check out this video

A very good break down on how the FAA looks at the rules. Not how you might think they work but how they actually work and why the Philly guy got zapped with over $180 thousand in fines. Best explanation I have seen to date and a few that surprised me.

autelpilots.com

ducatstrada · Dec 15, 2020

tvwxman said:
Hi ducatstrada, thank you for your input. Again I am just trying to clear this up in my own mind and the best way I can do that is continue referring directly to the FAA rules. I did not see any mention of VFR and IFR rules applying to this specific situation although I won't argue that it doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't the FAA make it as simple as you just did and throw down that rule? Rhetorical question I don't know the answer.

So here are the eight rules that must be followed laid out in section 44809 of the FAA rules for pilots flying under the exception for recreational Pilots. Number 7 does not apply yet.

49 U.S. Code § 44809 - Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft

(a)In General.—Except as provided in subsection (e), and notwithstanding chapter 447 of title 49, United States Code, a person may operate a small unmanned aircraft without specific certification or operating authority from the Federal Aviation Administration if the operation adheres to all of the following limitations:
(1)
The aircraft is flown strictly for recreational purposes.
(2)
The aircraft is operated in accordance with or within the programming of a community-based organization’s set of safety guidelines that are developed in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration.
(3)
The aircraft is flown within the visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft or a visual observer co-located and in direct communication with the operator.
(4)
The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft.
(5)
In Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport, the operator obtains prior authorization from the Administrator or designee before operating and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.
(6)
In Class G airspace, the aircraft is flown from the surface to not more than 400 feet above ground level and complies with all airspace restrictions and prohibitions.
(7)
The operator has passed an aeronautical knowledge and safety test described in subsection (g) and maintains proof of test passage to be made available to the Administrator or law enforcement upon request.
(8)
The aircraft is registered and marked in accordance with chapter 441 of this title and proof of registration is made available to the Administrator or a designee of the Administrator or law enforcement upon request.

The video should really be watched by all recreational drone pilots........